What webapps do you selfhost that aren't media/game servers?
from 3dmvr@lemm.ee to selfhosted@lemmy.world on 02 May 20:37
https://lemm.ee/post/62943131
from 3dmvr@lemm.ee to selfhosted@lemmy.world on 02 May 20:37
https://lemm.ee/post/62943131
Since selfhosted clouds seem to be the most common thing ppl host, i’m wondering what else ppl here are selfhosting. Is anyone making use of something like excalidraw in the workplace? Curious about what apps that would be useful to always access over the web that aren’t mediaservers.
threaded - newest
Besides a media server, I self host my email, a blog, an IRC bouncer, syncthing, SPFToolbox, and in my house I run ADS-B plane tracking.
@3dmvr @selfhosted I'd say DNS server is the most important self hosted server I have.
Mealie for recipes
Mealie is so underrated. They have meal planning, recipes, recipe parsing from the internet, grocery lists based on recipes and meal plans, like 4 different ways to organize recipes, and OIDC/SSO on top of it all!
Stripping the dogshit ads and filler from recipes makes it worth it alone.
Everything else is also great.
Mealie is what keeps me s/o tolerant of my selfhosting obsession
Actually Budget for finances, Nextcloud for everything office and organization, Home Assistant for home automation, paperless–ngx for storing and sorting documents, freshrss for news, ntfy.sh for notifications.
i dont understand ntfy.sh
you need an app to run to get messages? which you already do with home assistant and companion app or apprise. what is the usecase for ntfy?
Home Assistant notifications and almost all other notification services on phones actually route notifications through a cloud service like Firebase because Apple and Google try to railroad apps into their platforms. Ntfy lets you actually self host notifications without a third party, but also without killing your battery.
That’s not the main thing I care about, though. Mainly I use it as a self hosted replacement for PushBullet, to share links and files with myself across machines and do some light alerting for servers and stuff (e.g. TrueNAS errors). Some of that could he done with HA, but ntfy is just better for some other uses with stuff like its web ui.
Plus, apart from that ntfy is really easy to integrate with other stuff, like its easy to send a notification from a shell script or web hook so you can hack it into things that don’t otherwise support notifications (there are also lots of things that support ntfy natively, e.g. the arrs).
i cant follow your first paragraph. at all. i use companion app from fdroid withouth gsf and a selfhosted homeassistant. you could aswell connect apprise to it, you can uding telegram or whatever…all in homeassistant.
ntfy iphone and google app from playstore do share your data, right? and you use that to share data in LAN? i am confused.
Not entirely sure about the de-google’d version of the Home Assistant companion app, but I know the regular companion app uses Firebase (and whatever the Apple equivalent is called, I forget) to deliver notifications, and it still would using Telegram as Telegram also uses Firebase. Apprise is a bit different as it can use multiple backends. Regardless, there are multiple ways to do things. Ntfy iphone and google app do not route your data through a third party server. I self host the ntfy server on my own machine and domain and my phone connects to it and receives data. It will deliver notifications wherever I am, not just in my LAN. It also provides a nice UI akin to Pushbullet I can use to send myself stuff privately.
You can’t replicate all of what ntfy does with Home Assistant. There’s more to it than just delivering notifications, it’s the whole app frontend and persistent data etc. If it’s not clear to you what it’s for from my description you might have to go look into it yourself. Look at PushBullet, that’s most similar to what I primarily use it for.
ok. but thanks really for the details!
Actual budget, nextcloud
KitchenOwl is my latest addition and I am getting a lot of use out of it - s/o and I use it to share a grocery shopping list, slowly starting to add my recipes to it as well. I used to use a shared google keep list but KitchenOwl works a lot better.
Was trying this, but I’ve had issues with the app not properly synchronizing with the server. Does that work for you and if so, what’s your setup?
Was supposed to replace “Bring” and due to the issues, currently using grocy, where sync works, but is otherwise very tedious to manage inventory.
Dang sorry to hear that - I just followed the docker compose instructions and setup Caddy (which was also new to me) on my VPS and I was off the races, no issues yet.
Alright, might have to do some deeper investigation for why it’s messing up. Anyhow glad to hear it does work in principle and it may be something I’m doing - thanks!
Homeassistant is like shortcuts? You can have it do stuff if something else does something?
Among other things, yes.
Home assistant is lights, switches, sensors, blinds, fans, heat/cooling, and more. I have an automation that tells me 5 minutes after the wash is done so I can move laundry into the dryer, and another one that tells me if anyone left the back door open, telling me to close it. (My dog can open it from outside).
How’d you do the laundry one?
I’ve got a tp-link smart plug that monitors power. The automation triggers when it draws less than a watt (a few minutes after it completes the cycle, it turns off). I have the duration set to 5m, so a slower soak cycle shouldn’t trigger it (not tested yet).
Hmm. Wonder if I can do this with my Eve plug.
What are you using for the automation?
Thanks :-)
Home assistant, it’s a standard trigger in the automations… Trigger type: power.
Copying the yml is a pain on the phone
Edit:
mode: single Might be important, it feels important.
Besides using the power consumption there are also various ways to integrate smart devices - e.g. Bosch Siemens HomeConnect directly and let “the house” react to it. For the later a “no cloud” local integration has become available as well.
>no media servers >mentions immich as the first one
As a backup :p
Really interested in immich and archive box!
Check out linkwarden as well
You made me actually check out Immich and I love the tagging feature. That makes it feel much more like a photo library and less like just a giant file storage solution that happens to store photos.
Immich is really good actually. Completely replaced Google Photos for me.
Mumble and Wireguard
Some of my friends are heading back to mumble because discord is getting too bloated with useless features.
Wireguard is to be able to access my local network when I am away.
Wireguard + adguard means home ad blocking anywhere I want it.
Or WireGuard + PiHole
Check out Tailscale. It uses Wireguard under the hood, but it’s magic.
Wireguard is quite magic itself
God stop pushing tailscale. It’s just abstraction on top of wireguard. Those of us who knows how VPNs work don’t want a third party involved in our routing.
I hear about people wanting alternatives to discord though I never got into using it too much personally, but does anyone know about whether or not Revolt chat is a good open-source self-hostable solution?
I have tried and their documentation is too complex and incomplete for self hosting. Right now, for communication, I have mumble for VoIP and ngircd as an irc server.
It pretty much covers 80% of discord use case. I am looking for something that support video chat/screen sharing. Synapse is honestly not bad at all. But it's too power hungry for my liking. I wish Jitsi could have better ux for average consumer. It feels too business like.
Calendar and contacts (i.e. CalDAV/CardDAV). A blog. Media is just remote-mounted since all my systems are Linux.
I’m always leery of “one app for all” solutions, or in German, “eierlegende Wollmilchsau”.
Hence, no Nextcloud for me.
Which Calendar software do you use?
Glad you asked. I left that open on purpose because my server probably got hacked and I have only just reinstalled. So far I’ve been using DaviCAL - for many years - but I’ll revise this choice. It’s a little dated and quirky, and so ist PostgreSQL which it depends on.
Currently working to move away from Nextcloud myself, it’s PHP nature causes IO storms when it tries to check if it needs to reload any code for incoming requests.
You can optimize php a lot for performance. See my config https://gitlab.melroy.org/-/snippets/91
Yep, those values are actually somewhat tame compared to my own cache tuning, the issue remains that the code requires reloading PHP files from disk during runtime in order to support applications and updates, which - even if it doesn’t happen often - causes IO storms that temporarily break both Nextcloud as well as other software.
No. That is why I shared my configs. With opcache and opcache.validate_timestamps = 0 you don't have this problem anymore.
Of course you also need to enable opcache itself as well.
Or you have really slow spinning disks or something. Also be sure to use php 8.4.
Again, it works until it requires reloading, i.e. the next update of any component or the next restart of the server.
I’m also running an inode cache on the client side, on top of the persistent opcache, but due to the sheer number of files that Nextcloud consists of it still generates a frankly ridiculous amount of calls when it needs to invalidate the cache. If you’re running on local drives then that’s likely much less of an issue, regardless of what kind of drive it is, but this is hosted on machines that do not have any local storage.
Uh I see.
Eh, my Nextcloud LXC container idles at less than 4.5% CPU usage (“max over the week” from Proxmox). I use PostgreSQL as the backend on a separate LXC container that has some peaks of 9% CPU usage, but is normally at 5% too.
I only have two users, though. But both containers have barely IO activity.
Oh yeah, CPU usage is basically zero, and memory usage of the PHP code itself is also basically nil compared to other software I run. It’s just the sudden storms of IO requests that causes issues, and since those come over a network pipe it causes issues for other pieces of software as well.
I see some CPU and memory usage on my setup… but I don’t even see any IO!
Literally, the IO chart for “week (maximum)” on Proxmox for my Nextcloud LXC container is 0, except for two bursts, of 3 hours of less each. (Maybe package updates?)
The PostgreSQL LXC container has some more activity (but not much), but that’s backing Nextcloud and four other applications (one being Miniflux, which has much more data churn).
Are you looking at data rates or IO operations? Because this is almost exclusively stat queries, i.e. inode queries.
I was looking at the Proxmox graphs. Now, looking at
iostat,r/smeasured over 10s hovers between 0 and 0.20, with no visible effect of spamming reload on a Nextcloud URL. If you want me to run any other measurement command, happy to.Interesting, that’s definitely not what I’m seeing from regular use. Are you running any added applications? LDAP? SSO? External mounts?
I use LDAP auth, but no SSO or external mounts. Actually, I tested external mounts, but they gave me bad vibes, although they are interesting.
The other thing, I just run a preview generator application, no other plugins.
Like others have mentioned, Actual is great. Couldn’t recommend it enough for anyone looking to start budgeting. Others I run but haven’t seen mentioned yet: ChangeDetection, Adguard Home, Homepage, BambuStudio, and Statistics-for-strava
Why dont they sell routers that come with adguard built in, or is that a newer thing? Well, googled it after typing that and it comes preinstalled on some routers now
All OpenWRT-based routers have the option of built-in DNS-based adblock, can thoroughly recommend the Turris routers for such things.
!mikrotik@lemmy.world routers are made in Europe and have adblock built in
If your router supports Freshtomato firmware, it also has adguard you can enable too.
Forgejo Jellyfin Navidrome PiHole AudioBookshelf Manyfold FoundryVTT sometimes
Vpn, nas, home assistant, dns, reverse proxy, adblocker, specialty controller units, misc project vms/containers.
IRC Client
RSS reader
Vikunja (todo list)
My website
web apps
self-host
If you host the web-apps at home/yourself arent they self hosted?
Whoogle, a meta-search that strips away all the nasty things from Google. Can’t live without it tbh.
HortusFox
Wallos
Uptime Kuma
And then the list goes on and on. Like prometheus, grafana, uptime Kuma, mariadb, Valkey, postgresql, unbound dns, all those things..
Web-accessible Emacs? What are you using?
You can use the Linuxserver.io VSCodium Image and replace VSCodium with Emacs in the Dockerfile.
Huh, what?
I see in your link that that image has support for KasmVNC, which is great and you could use to make Emacs work…
But the whole point of VS Code is that it can run in a browser and not use a remote desktop solution- which is always going to be a worse experience than a locally-rendered UI.
I kinda expect someone to package Emacs with a JS terminal, or with a browser-friendly frontend, but I’m always very surprised that this does not exist. (It would be pretty cool to have a Git forge that can spawn an Emacs with my configuration on a browser to edit a repository.)
Exactly, since KasmVNC can run GUI programs in the browser and the Linux server.io base image is just Debian, it was trivial to just run it with Emacs instead. I much prefer Emacs over VS Code because of Org Mode. While VS Code works well in a browser. It isn’t what I wanted.
Here is where I have posted my Emacs Dockerfile. It might be a little out of date. Emacs Docker
EDIT: The Dockerfile also installs the fonts I like for Emacs along with git and hunspell.
EDIT: You could also probably achieve something similar with a Docker container run ning Apache Guacamole.
I keep everything documented, along with my infrastructure as code stuff. Briefly:
edit: plus a few things that do not have a web UI.
All these. I just added calibre web and may phase out Kavita. <img alt="" src="https://lemm.ee/pictrs/image/2168cc82-60ed-446d-b272-67fda32ca1ad.jpeg">
Are books not media?
I was thinking through my list, and almost mentioned Calibre Web, but decided it’s media related.
Eh, it’s a document viewer. I figured they’re referring to Plex and jellyfin when they say media.
I love that the load on all of these is 0% :D
Yeah, just me and my family for now. I have gotten a lot of knowledge setting stuff up and hope to eventually get some VPSs set up for some public Lemmy, pixelfed, and maybe mastodon instances for digital nomads and expats.
What interface is that, it looks great!
That’s TrueNas. It can run docker compose files so I’m abusing the crap out of what it’s supposed to do haha.
Looks like TrueNAS.
vaultwarden, ntfy
I randomly think about something I want, and then usually find it here. Used to be a GitHub repo, but it got so popular and useful they got a nice site with search and all, now.
awesome-selfhosted.net
I don’t have as much running anymore outside media/games, but I do still run Stirling PDF as an Acrobat Pro alternative.
In my experience, this is always the case with ha
Lol. :)
Been thinking about adding NextCloud mostly for the Google Docs/MS Office replacement at some point.
But honestly most of my stuff is just for me, my family prefers to to use whatever commercial thing is out there. So I tend to limit things to infrastructure type things that are of personal interest to me alone.
This guy has a lot of memory in his server
It is allotted 16GB out of the 62GB total that the host has. Which is the amount their docs call for in a 20 RPS or 1000 user scenario. Since I am the only one doing any commits or pulls, it does fine.
Does take its sweet time to reboot though. 😆
Wow, I would never considering allocating so much memory to a single service I run at home.
It is all running in a Proxmox cluster. 2 nodes have 62GB and one has 32GB. So while it is a good chunk. Not enough to bottleneck available RAM for other things in the cluster.
Baikal for calendar, todo and contact syncing
Forgejo for version control
Silverbullet for markdown notes
FreshRSS for aggregated news
Linkding for bookmarks
Headscale
Matrix server (conduwuit, soon to be tuwunel)
Matrix bridges (slack, discord, whatsapp)
Adguard
Pihole
Findmydevice
Redlib
Linkwarden
Forgejo
Ntfy
Molly socket
Home assistant
Uptime Kuma
There’s probably more that I’m forgetting lol
+1 For hass.
You can selfhost find my device? Do you have a link to that project?
.
Yep you can self-host findmydevice anywhere. Personally, I deployed it on fly.io as I don’t expose my local network to the internet for security reasons
gitlab.com/Nulide/findmydevice
Adguard
Pihole
More adblockers for the ad-blocking god!
Lol, when I moved the most recent pihole version had just got released so I wanted to check it out. I have pihole service my IoT network and 3 adguard->unbound instances setup for my main network for fallbacks 🤣.
But yeah I hate ads/trackers with a burning passion as you can see hahaha
I like to seed legal torrents for archival purposes. And run a comic server for syncing with my kobo ereader . Oh and rss
Foundry VTT (I know it’s technically for a game but it’s technically a virtual tabletop and not a game itself)
AI Chatbots for tech support
I technically self-host an image generation AI through my main home PC, but that’s made less accessable and only on when I specifically demand it via ssh lol
Occasionally I’ll throw a temp website up for local events for like event schedules or whatever, an easily accessable and editable html file or whatever
I see mention of Foundry, I upvote. My friends and I have been using it for a couple years and still find new ways to be impressed by it.
I just started porting a DnD Beyond campaign into it and using it to store homebrew world info for a future game, but so far it’s been basically everything I ever wanted from Roll20 or DDB, but self-hosted and they give you access to the code so you can just… Code in features you want
Thinking about pirating the FFXIV TTRPG when someone puts it up and making it in Foundry if it’s not already done by someone smarter eventually lol
Foundry was the 2nd thing i started self hosting (the first being pihole). Have had it running for 5 years now.
Other than that i only recently started expanding my self hosting:
Local LLMs, I’m surprised no one brought that up yet. I’ve got an old GPU in my server, and I’m running some local models with openweb-ui for use in the browser and Maid for an Android app to connect to it.
You’re a brave one admitting that on here. Don’t you know LLM’s are pure evil? You might as well be torturing children!
I think most people on here are reasonable, and I think local LLMs are reasonable.
The race to AGI and companies trying to shove “AI” into everything is kind of insane, but it’s hard to deny LLMs are useful and running them locally you dont have privacy concerns.
Interesting, this has not been my experience. Most people on here seem to treat AI as completely black and white, with zero shades of grey.
I see a mix, don’t get me wrong, Lemmy is definitely opinionated lol, but I don’t think it’s quite black and white.
Also, generally, I’m not going to not share my thoughts or opinions because I’m afraid of people that don’t understand nuance, sometimes I don’t feel like dealing with it, but I’m going to share my opinion most of the time.
OP asked what you self host that isn’t media, self hosted LLMs is something I find very useful and I didn’t see mentioned. Home assistant, pihole, etc, all great answers… But those were already mentioned.
I still have positive upvotes on that comment, and no one has flamed me yet, but we will see.
I’ll give my recommendation to local LLMs as well. I have a 1060 super that I bought years ago in 2019 and it’s just big enough to do some very basic auto completion within visual studio. I love it. I wouldn’t trust it to write an entire program on its own, but when I have hit a mental block and need a rough estimate of how to use a library or how I can arrange some code, it gives me enough inspiration to get through that hump.
Ya exactly! Or just sanity checking if you understand how something works, I use it a lot for that, or trying to fill in knowledge gaps.
Also qwen3 is out, check that out, it might fit on a 1060.
Concur. In particular models focused on image output.
Ais fine as a tool, trying to replace workers and artists while blatantly ripping stuff off is annoying, it can be a timesaver or just helpful for searching through your own docs/files
If you agree it’s a time saver, then you agree it makes workers more efficient. You now have a team of 5 doing the work of a team of 6. From a business perspective it’s idiotic to have more people than you need to, so someone would be let go from that team.
I personally don’t see any issue with this, as it’s been happening for the existence of humanity.
Tools are constantly improving that make us more efficient.
Most of people’s issue with AI is more an issue with greedy humans, and not the technology itself. Lord knows that new team of 5 is not getting the collective pay as the previous team of 6.
more work can get done and more work can be show in progress, its like a marginal timesaver, itll knock off 25% of a human maybe if that, not replace a whole one
If everyone on your team of 6 is 20% faster, you don’t necessarily need the 6th person. Maybe you put that towards more work, but that’s not very American, these days. Cut costs, cash out, fuck 'em
Nor will they get the workload of 6 people. They might for a couple of months, but at some point the KPI’s will suddenly say that it’s possible to squeeze out the workload of 2 more people. With maybe even 1 worker less!
Are you my project manager??
I think looking through the comments on this post about AI stuff is a pretty good representation of my experience on lemmy. Definitely some opinions, but most people are pretty reasonable 🙂
LLMs are perfectly fine, and cool tech. Problem is they’re billed as being actual intelligence or things that can replace humans. Sure they mimic humans well enough, but it would take a lot more than just absorbing content to be good enough at it to replace a human, rather than just aiding them. Either the content needs to be manually processed to add social context, or new tech needs to be made that includes models for how to interpret content in every culture represented by every piece of content, including dead cultures who’s work is available to the model. Otherwise, “hallucinations” (e.g. misinterpretation and thus miscategorization of data) will make them totally unreliable without human filtering.
That being said, there many more targeted uses of the tech that are quite good, but always with the need for a human to verify.
The tech itself is great.
But:
Completely agree
To add to this, I host Confusion for image generation
I self-host web apps I write myself? ¯\(ツ)/¯
I’m just starting to get into this myself. I made one so my family can easily check the status of my media server and send a movie, show, or music request to sonarr, radarr, and soularr(WIP) so they don’t have to bug me when they want something and it also helps them to feel they have more agency in the process. It’s pretty useful for me as well to be able to easily download things instead on the go instead of keeping a neverending list.
What kind of apps do you write?
I believe that functionality exists already if you are using Plex; via RSS sync.
Set up Overseerr.
I don’t see how that’s easier or better, but feel free to change my mind. As it is now no one needs to download a separate app or have multiple logins. They just go to the URL and there’s the status and a form to type in what they want the arrs to start searching for.
It’s like the difference between using Plex and a file browser to find a movie/show to watch.
Not really? To the ADHD mind trying to keep the one piece of media you’re looking for at the top of your mind while you load an app full of suggestions for other shows and movies is a nightmare, and it’s not any more convenient because you’re still going to end up searching for the media you want. The only added convenience is when you’re not looking for anything in particular and just want to see what’s out there and there’s a million better ways to do that. Factor in having to instruct everyone to download the app and create an account rather than just go to a URL you can access from any device anywhere and put in your show/movie/song and in a few minutes you have it. Overseerr doesn’t monitor my services either, or whatever else I want to do. It’s MUCH easier to maintain and more convenient for everyone. And does Overseerr even interact with Soularr or readarr? The functionality of my webapp scales exponentially, I’m not tied to what the developers of Overseerr deem functional.
You don’t have to download an app for Overseerr to add things. It’s just a URL you can access from any device anywhere (assuming you’ve got a domain etc like you must for your web app) and put in your show/movie and in a few minutes you have it.
It does when you set it up.
No skin off my back, don’t use it for all I care - I was just pointing out that a fantastic ready made service already exists for that.
Ah, no I appreciate the back and forth. I was looking into Overseerr once upon a time, but my Plex server is running in a Windows VM and I didn’t want to mess with Windows Docker. A python script and a few HTML files seemed much easier at the time and got the desired result. I am eventually planning to migrate the server to Linux, but haven’t had the time and energy and would have to literally schedule the downtime with my family. It still doesn’t look like Overseerr integrates with Soularr or Readarr but I’ve made a note to play around a bit with it in the future.
I used to get the light prices on my phone widget via a public api. Some years ago they closed the api and started asking for full name and id in order to get api access. So I just made a scrapper that takes the numbers I want from their website and serves an API for the widget.
That’s the only self made app I self host, but I’m quite proud of it.
searxng an matrix both on a vps an public an everything else i host local an are not on the web
SearXNG, Forgejo, Linkwarden, Vaultwarden, copyparty, all the Servarr apps, qBittorrent and SABnzbd for downloads, Syncthing, Mastodon, and all the various containers like databases and other tools that support the aforementioned.
Depends on what you consider self-hosted. Web applications I use over LAN include Home Assistant, NextRSS, Syncthing, cockpit-machines (VM host), and media stuff (Jellyfin, Kavita, etc). Without web UI, I also run servers for NFS, SMB, and Joplin sync. Nothing but a Wireguard VPN is public-facing; I generally only use it for SSH and file transfer but can access anything else through it.
I’ve had NextCloud running for a year or two but honestly don’t see much point and will probably uninstall it.
I’ve been planning to someday also try out Immich (photo sync), Radicale (calendar), ntfy.sh, paperless-ngx, ArchiveBox (web archive), Tube Archivist (YouTube archive), and Frigate NVR.
Immich and Radicale definitely recommended. I’ve still got paperless-ng and plan to move to paperless-ngx as soon as I find the time. I’ve also got firefly-iii which is a big revolution to how I manage personal finance. Even my 17 old son has got into it … He couldn’t understand where all his hard earnings were going.
Ombi for media requests.
Storyteller, ever wish you could listen to an Audio book and read an ebook at the same time.
Storyteller can combine an Audio book and and ebook to create a single ebook that can be read like a normal ebook or you can listen to it and watch the actively spoken sentences highlighted in real time like a karaoke song lyrics.
This is pretty neat!
storyteller-platform.gitlab.io/…/what-is-this
Sounds like you need both the audio and the ebook to make it work?
I typically only have one or the other.
Yes you need to provide both an Audio book and an ebook as inputs, if you only have one of these, you could try getting the other from your local library, or you could sail the seas. It’s not a fool proof process, so sometimes you have to try different formats of Audio books to make it work, also depending on how beefy your computer is, it will take some time to process, 1-2 hrs for big books like Stormlight Archive on my laptop
Lol no? Absolutely not.
Joplin. I have it as a sync server. But have it tucked away in a cloud server for the times when I’m traveling so j always have a way to access data in case my phone gets stolen/confiscated.
Honestly,I think I have a problem.
Can confirm you have a problem. I mean, you have two services to document your stuff.
Yeah, but Netbox is really really neat to document cabeling, IPAM, the rack and does asset management as well with a plugin.
But it’s really hard to document HOWTOs in it. And wiki.js is really a bad idea for the former.
You have all the solutions lol
It sounds like it, but there are a few things I still need to do.
AMP Gamemanager to get better control of the servers for the kiddos
Codeproject AI for better image recognition with agent dvr
A proper voice AI setup with HA
I need to get my PBX setup going again
I will soon clean up my media and storage solution and move to TrueNAS
And I need to automate more. One day…
There is a pinned post for this lemmy.world/post/60585
I like seeing the same question pop up at least every few months to get fresh opinions, thats like 2 years old ppl could have scrapped their setup and have new ones now